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    m416 tongue

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    ZiMM

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    m416 tongue

    Post by ZiMM on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:54 pm

    id like to extend it for better reverse control, its so short i tend to jack knife it ridiculously easy compared to my boat, which i never do. i dont want to lose too much break over though.

    what length extension bar do you suggest? 36" enough?
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    FJ Boozah
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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by FJ Boozah on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:01 pm

    This is from a different thread a few down from yours but the info that pertains is the same.  Here is what the common consensus is when it comes to trailer tongue length should be.


    booth9c1ss
    Booth9C1ss wrote:When designing or buying a trailer, be absolutely sure that the length from the trailer ball/pivot attachment point to the trailer axle is longer than the length from your towing vehicle rear axle to the hitch.  Otherwise you will have a very hard time backing it.  If those two lengths are equal, it would be a 1:1 ratio.

    The longer the tongue (attachment point to trailer axle) length, the easier it will be to back.  Tractor trailer trucks hah the pivot directly above the rear axle (0'), and the 53' trail it around 45' from the pivot to the rear axle (45') making the ratio 0:45.  They back very well... but they have to take really wide turns going forward.

    But... the shorter the tongue length is (getting closer to 1:1 above), the better it will be to follow you on the trail (going forward).


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    ZiMM

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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by ZiMM on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:32 pm

    mines 48 to 80 inches on the lexus. it sucks. it still sucks on the fj40, which would have a greater ratio. i noticed even guys with jeeps extended their m416's, so im hoping for in the field best compromise.

    0:45 isnt a ratio. a "ratio" of 0:(any positive) is 0. in reverse it would be undefined. likewise, its common to represent one of the numbers as "1". so, .5:10 is actually 1:20. example, my transfer case in the 72 fj40 is 2.33:1, the 76 is 2:1.

    the instability in a tongue trailer, originates from the fact that when you turn right, the trailer and its mass, rotates left. in a 5th wheel, the towed mass doesnt rotate, because there is NO ratio.
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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by FJ Boozah on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:15 pm

    Ok layman's terms.  

    Go measure your "rear axle" to your rear hitch ball. Call this whatever you'd like. Today Ill call this "draw". Then measure your hitch ball to your trailer axle.  Today, Ill call it "reach". Make sure the reach is longer than the draw, but not by too much.  

    The trick I used was to get it so that the distance of tongue length allowed that if my trailer were to jack knife that it wouldn't take out my back end of my vehicle and I can get the tongue as close to parallel with my rear bumper without making contact with the "tub" or bed of the trailer, all while making sure that the tongue length will make the trailer track appropriately and not wander or shift.  

    The longer the tongue length, the more it should be reinforced as now this is the weak point of the trailer.  It will transfer kinetic energy back and forth through your vehicle's suspension and the suspension of the trailer and it will bounce and jerk all over the place. It's like connecting your trailer tub to your hitch ball with a piece of wet spaghetti. Wheat, of course.


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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by ZiMM on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:33 pm

    FJ Boozah wrote:
    The trick I used was to get it so that the distance of tongue length allowed that if my trailer were to jack knife that it wouldn't take out my back end of my vehicle and I can get the tongue as close to parallel with my rear bumper without making contact with the "tub" or bed of the trailer, all while making sure that the tongue length will make the trailer track appropriately and not wander or shift.  

    The longer the tongue length, the more it should be reinforced as now this is the weak point of the trailer.  It will transfer kinetic energy back and forth through your vehicle's suspension and the suspension of the trailer and it will bounce and jerk all over the place. It's like connecting your trailer tub to your hitch ball with a piece of wet spaghetti. Wheat, of course.

    thats a realy good idea. ill hook it up and take some measurements.

    im using 2x3x1/4. i dont think a 24-36 stick on an m416 that i can move by hand loaded, is going to have any discernible deflection or area of inertia such as to affect the handeling of the trailer.
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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by FJ Boozah on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:41 pm

    Agreed.  You do have a fairly heavy laden trailer there even prior to it being loaded so that area of concern may not be warranted.  2X3X1/4 is some heavy stuff.  Shouldn't have any problems with it coming undone dependant on how you decide to connect the new arm onto your trailer. Are you going to sleeve the joint?


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    Re: m416 tongue

    Post by ZiMM on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:41 pm

    FJ Boozah wrote:Agreed.  You do have a fairly heavy laden trailer there even prior to it being loaded so that area of concern may not be warranted.  2X3X1/4 is some heavy stuff.  Shouldn't have any problems with it coming undone dependant on how you decide to connect the new arm onto your trailer. Are you going to sleeve the joint?

    currently im running a flipable 6 hole position extention that permits attachment to a wide variety of truck heights. i have a 6" lifted f350 down to a the 2" lifted lexus, that used to be a no lift. i plan on just cutting and welding onto that fabrication. the "tongue" utilizes both pintle holes for connection. i can always take it back to vietnam factory spec with the pintle. i like the drum brake so there are no plans for a tongue box. the tent sits forward of center and the spare is bolted to the back. it tows steady. after i get this setup ill have to fab some sort of roller hitch.

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